Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been thinking about making this post for some time, and events that have unfolded in several threads over the past few weeks make me think that I cannot wait any longer. In my opinion we have some issues that need to be addressed.



In my opinion the forum is growing more confrontational and more frequently “battle lines” are being drawn that serve to divide the community. This was never the point of the OLF. When I started this forum almost 3 years ago it was to be a place that welcomed builders of all levels – people who regardless of their skill level loved the craft and were continually striving to improve – regardless whether they were a first time builder or an old pro. It was this love of the art that is the glue that holds us together.



However, lately, we seem to be focusing on our differences more than our similarities.



We are a great community, and in my (biased )opinion, we are the BEST online community precisely because of our egalitarian approach. But I think it is time to reflect on a few things.



1) Challenge ideas, not people. We are all friends, and it is ok to disagree over approach – whether it deals with core philosophy of how to build, or the minutia of the details. But when you challenge another’s point of view do so respectfully and in a way that only challenges their ideas, not them as a person. What is the famous quote – “There is no progress without struggle.”?   Perhaps by defending your ideas you may either learn a new perspective, or gain a deeper conviction that your way is “the right way”. But these “taste’s great” / “less filling” debates that we have fallen into are pointless and only serve to bruise egos and friendships. AGAIN – let’s focus on our similarities more than our differences.



2) For the newer builders – clearly there is a lot of enthusiasm out there and that is a wonderful thing. I would still consider myself to be a “newer” builder. But understand that there is no shortcut to success. A lot of our members are guys with decades and decades of experience who have a lot wisdom to share -- some from their sheer talent and brilliance, and some lessons they learned from the school of hard knocks. We all benefit from access to this knowledge and experience. I have seen a few situations where I believe these members have not been treated with respect. That is bad for everyone and only deprives us all of their continued patronage. Certainly, ask lots of questions if you don’t understand or agree, but consider the fact that after a lifetime in “the business” they probably have made all the mistakes that we are struggling through now, and can help us fast forward through them.



3) Be Polite – if someone offends you or annoys you count to 10. There is no reason for some of the sniping I have seen. It is not productive, usually just escalates and generates 50 posts where once again everyone ends up taking sides over “who is right”. This is not productive. In a community of almost 700 members these situations are bound to occur, so it is best just to let these things pass without comment – or at least take them to email if you feel like you **MUST** say something.



4) NO PROFANITY! Period. I am not a prude, but I mean this. This is a very simple request. There is proper decorum in any environment, and this is one of our rules. Don’t violate it.



I sincerely hope that this post does not incite yet another fire storm, but causes a few minutes of individual reflection in the hopes of setting the tone of our community back on track..

Lance
LanceK38775.5527083333

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Excellent Lance.

Who can argue with reasonable requests like this.

May I make one suggestion? Up top of the forum, post a set of minimal rules like those noted here. Thanks for taking time to once again, make the OLF an enjoyable place to visit and share our interest in acoustic guitar.

Thanks.   

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

RIGHT ON, LANCE!!!
walter

You know I very well may have bee guilty of getting personal with out the intension to do so in a post on FP and steel sting guitars a while back. If so I hope that everyone here knows me well enough to know that was not my intent. But none the less Lance is right. We must always temper our emotions and convictions with the reason and foresight not to offend.

By in large everyone here is pretty darn good at doing so. I can not think of anyone I have ever felt posted anything that was even near a personal swipe at me. But like Bruce Dickey once told me a short time back it is very easy to miss read a persons demeanor and intention in cyber space. So thought and courtesy is a must when post a rebuttal or debate.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Lance,

Well said! Don't be discouraged, though, if you have to give us all a reminder every once in a while, human nature being what it is. It's like you're giving us a new eyeware prescription--we can focus better.

Well stated, Lance. There's a reason why this forum has expanded to the extent that it has. You set the right tone from the beginning and your statement only reinforces that tone.

One suggestion, when you see behavior that is not up to the standards you want, (personal attacks, sniping, etc.) send a PM calling people on it...including me. The members would benefit as would any individual who needs a reminder.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

And on behalf of the [really really] new builders, I'll shout out a big

Thank You!!!

to the senior/advanced/consider-yourself-new-but-give-me-a-break-La nce builders who offer great advice, encouragement, and more. There's no telling how many guitars that have been built that would still be languishing as a pile of unloved lumber if it wasn't for you guys!

Aewsome Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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(716) 874-1498

Bravo Lance! Thank you! Yet another reason I participate in this forum!



-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
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Here, here! Nicely said, Lance!

Well said! I couldn’t agree with you more and I feel this is one of the better forums I have ever been in contact with. Please let’s keep it that way! Every forum goes through rought times and its how the members react to situations like this that decide its future. Let me add a thank you to all the members who do reply with useful advice for almost any need. I really see this when a member has a real problem or dilemma. OLF member really go all out to help a fellow builder work through their situation. That is in the true spirit of the board. In fact, you guys even allow me to post ideas or questions and I am a non-builder (waiting) and a woodworking dork.

Philip

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aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

Right on sir, kids in the playground always need an adult!
Keep up the great work Lance,
Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

You Rock Lance!

I really appreciate all of your hard work to keep this forum so great!

Very well said Lance!

Your attitude and way of dealing with the things that go on, on a forum like this are the reasons I like to hang out here. Besides, all those threads full of sniping are a real drag to read.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Well said Lance.

As our Aussie friends would say, "good on you , mate"! (I don't know why, but I love that expresson).
One thing that you've said that has stuck with me is that you often read the forum with your daughter on your lap, and she can read. That's made me hit the delete button a time or two.
It's good to have this little reminder about our conduct. Sort of like when your mom used to give you THE look that said if you didn't shape up you were going to get a whoopin'.

Merci Beaucoup!!!
Andy

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I am very happy for that letter Lance, no one here can afford to put our great forum at risk. it saddens me a lot when i see some division instead of unity.
My only wish is for people to PM themselves for when they disagree or feel they have been mistreated and also use the PM way for apologies when matters were too personnal

Good idea Lance!

I have winced a few times lately in reading a few posts here - that never happened before. At other forums on the internet I wouldn't have been effected that way but this place is special to me & I don't like seeing it, however slowly, become a less giving & generous place. Thanks,

Skip

Thanks Lance we needed it!

Hey, what'd I miss? Haven';t read any new trheads in a few days(except the bridge slotting one, and ti was, ummm, mild...).

Where's all this fun stuff happening?